PPCChat | What’s on Your Mind This Week in PPC? | 9th January 2024

From the end of third-party cookies to navigating PMax strategies and client quries, host Julie F Bacchini tackled it all in this week’s PPCChat, providing expert insights and solutions.

Q1: What is on your mind in PPC this week?

I’ve been mulling on the future of targeting in a post 3rd-party cookie world. @Pete_Bowen

@Pete_Bowen I am working on lining up a guest on the end of cookie topic! But yes, on my mind too. @NeptuneMoon

Is PMax just going to take over everything and when are keywords ending? @JuliaVyse

3rd party cookies. @adwordsgirl

@JuliaVyse Discovery is going away this month , and soon Display will fallow their steps. We are heading in that direction it seems. @slobodanjelisavac

So fun fact: I haven’t done much with PMAX. Just with my clients and how budgets have landed I haven’t had much need since I’ve been able to use budget and get wins with search. So I’ve been contemplating structure for PMAX because I think it’s time to test it more. I’m wondering what other people do for PMAX structure? I figure the answer will depend on the scenario but I wanna hear what people do! @alexnicoll93

Google support. Not happy. @runnerkik

Demand Gen is not working as well as Discovery was… what gives? @revaminkoff

I just made a end of cookies thread we can use for that topic. @NeptuneMoon

I am not sure how well PMAX would be for B2B campaigns. @adebowaleselere

I’m trying to prepare my “content game” for myself to acquire new clients in new year as freelancer / micro-agency owner. This topic is always interesting to discuss with fellow PPCers. @slobodanjelisavac

@slobodanjelisavac Next week’s topic is freelancing and consulting, so mark your calendar for that! @NeptuneMoon

@slobodanjelisavac I’m similarly working on content to kick off the new year. Directionally, I’m unpacking one specific strategy at a time, and writing against a decision tree, of sorts. “If this is happening, I look to A and do B or C. If that is happening, I look to X and do Y or Z.” @teabeeshell

@teabeeshell I think content is the king. Sharing advices, tips, suggestions on some professional platforms like LI and maybe YT would be ultimate lead-driver machine.
Knowing actually what worked is bit hard, as to many touch-points are happened between reading some of your post to users actually DMing you.Damn, now I’m sound like Google Ads rep, with thousands multiple-touch point problem-solving solution. @slobodanjelisavac

Same as many I think… 3rd party cookies, tracking, getting buy-in for server side tracking, how to be accountable for results when targets are higher but quantifying results is harder. @lindsaycasey

That it is 2024 and another year around the sun.Also thinking about 2024 revenue goals for clients. @duanebrown

My concern at the moment is getting Conversion tracking working with the client switching over to Shopify CRM. @brianJgaspar

I know this is mostly about performance media itself, but I’m also thinking about my team this year. What do we want to get out of 2024? what do we want to put in? how are we doing, and what can we do better? @JuliaVyse

Thoughts on End of Third Party Cookies

Trying to find the signal amongst the noise. I’ve read a bunch of doom-and-gloom but can’t quite figure out what the real impact is likely to be. @Pete_Bowen

I honestly can’t understand what would be the biggest issues. My assumption is that we won’t have proper  in-market audience targeting or custom audiences? @sofiaakritidou

It is confusing @Pete_Bowen. There were some questions about it when we had Ginny Marvin here and I just pinged her about getting our recap post out.But I think many things are going to break when cookies are finally pulled from Chrome. @NeptuneMoon

My wildly-unpopular take on this is that Google has reached the “big-short” place: they have secured a sufficient data moat such that doing this will not break any of their ad platforms. @DigitalSamIAm

For this issue, I can only say we just having to keep building and optimizing our email lists. @adebowaleselere

Which means: this is a nothingburger for Google, and a “probably bad day” for third parties that rely on cookies. @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm That’s believable. @Pete_Bowen

I agree with @DigitalSamIAm Think of it like iOS14, but from Google instead of from Apple. @JuliaVyse

Well, and let us not forget how many sites rely on cookies to function right now. That is going to be a big old mess in this too! @NeptuneMoon

@DigitalSamIAm Google is going to be pushing modeled data hard as this happens. I know you are experienced with modeling. Advice for those who have not waded into those waters much or at all? @NeptuneMoon

I actually think this will be less impactful than iOS for Google Advertisers – iOS was particularly problematic for Meta b/c of Meta’s limits on end-to-end collection (Meta doesn’t have Android, and they don’t have Chrome, and they don’t have YouTube).Google has 60% of the browser market, 90% of the search market, and ~80% of the Smartphone market. @DigitalSamIAm

Good kick in the bum to get server side tracking up but also, 1st party cookies will still be here. It is not not armageddon some are posting on LinkedIn about.@duanebrown

Google rolling this out tells you that Google’s team (who I firmly believe is one of the smartest and best in the world) has secured a viable workoutaround and they are confident that doing this will only strengthen (not retain, strengthen) their competitive position. @DigitalSamIAm

I’m with Sam on this one. I remember a few years ago when the conversation started, I had said something similar about how there is no way that Google wouldn’t find a workaround before they start removing third party cookies. I’m not as shaken by this news as I was for the iOS update. @adwordsgirl

It reminds me of the transition from JS to HTML5 requirements for display ads ~8 years ago. This felt tectonic, but advertisers paved a new path.This is certainly bigger than that, but it’s also still just a constraint. The sandbox is a different shape, but there is still sand, borders, and “toys” to play with. We’ll persevere! @teabeeshell

I cannot fully believe that they would push the removal so many times for this long without having done everything that they could to find a workaround. @adwordsgirl

The really amusing part is that people believe that ending 3P cookies will somehow hurt dominant players.Regulation hurts upstarts and challengers, not titans.Google has a data moat. Meta has a data moat. Apple has a data moat.This change now acts as a constraint on future brands building similar moats, while leaving those established provided minimally-impacted. @DigitalSamIAm

Let’s not ignore the role that Google wants advertiser’s customer lists to play in this too. IN addition to providing even more data to the Google machine, it also shifts liability off of Google and onto advertisers.Make sure you have your privacy policy ducks in a row when it comes to how you might use customer and/or prospect data! I know I am a broken record on this, but it is important. @NeptuneMoon

@NeptuneMoon is dead-on with this.Google doesn’t need 3P data anymore, because they’ve built a full, detailed, wildly-comprehensive 1P and 0P profile of 2B people. @DigitalSamIAm

I’m also curious — has anyone seen a really “reactionary” or “armedeggedon-style” post about this on LI? @DigitalSamIAm

I’ve seen a few posts on LinkedIn about this topic and they pretty much said that this change will determine who are the great advertisers that will action things in advance compared to just good advertisers. @sofiaakritidou

I think that’s a pretty staggering exaggeration @sofiaakritidou – especially in the short-run. @DigitalSamIAm

I’m very glad to hear that and I agree with your perspective on this. @sofiaakritidou

Yeah, it’s just been a lot of people being a little dramatic about it. I’ve seen some people use the news to increase their email subs, so I can’t hate on the hustle, but it feels icky. @adwordsgirl

I always call back to the days in HoldCo land I spent making real-time dashboards prepping for the day GDPR and Safari’s first tracking removal initially hit Europe….only for them to look pretty much totally normal. I think in general the big players who have either 1) a whole tonne of logged-in user data or 2) a browser (where it’s looking like a lot of attribution will happen) will be at least short term in the strongest position. But I’m incredibly excited to see and get involved in the innovation that it will force to happen – we won’t see where the chips finally fall for a while…until the next big thing comes along! @Greg_Asquith

Performance Max – strategies and will it be the one campaign to rule them all

So, as with regards PMAX ads. I see it doing so well for Ecom. But I do not see how it applies to B2B businesses. @adebowaleselere

I think “its like” going towards that, but I don’t believe it. Every business is too complicated and unique in its own way that it is not possible to create a platform or tool that would only work in the “insert budget and start the party” way. @slobodanjelisavac

Agree! if there aren’t enough conversions to provide data, I don’t see it going great. A max clicks bid strat would be acceptable for me. @JuliaVyse

I just reminded my client that if you don’t provide a video, Google will make one automatically based on what it finds from your site and asset library. yikers! @JuliaVyse

I’ve heard that! Almost everyone I’ve talked to said providing your own video creative is a good thing. Thankfully I have the ability to do that with the clients I’m looking to test PMAX for this year. @alexnicoll93

I firmly believe that Google Ads wants to make PMax the only campaign option. No whether they can actually do that is another question. But as we know, what they do depends heavily on what their most favored advertisers want, not necessarily the needs or wants of many advertisers. So this one will be interesting to watch…All of their automated bidding options have a long way to go to function efficiently/well for low volume or long conversion window accounts. @NeptuneMoon

I hear from Google that it’s heading towards a “one campaign to rule them all approach” with PMax, but I agree with everyone that it doesn’t seem to work for… a lot of advertisers/situations. @revaminkoff

@alexnicoll93 – Here are some broader setup requirements I try to adhere to:

• Bid on New Customers Only (a setting).
• Set New Customer Value to $0.01 (lowest possible) to avoid Google artificially inflating revenue figures within the reporting UI.
• Create and add a Brand Exclusion List to avoid PMax cannibalizing branded search (up to 50-60%, left unchecked).
• Run a parallel Branded Search campaign, either bidding strictly with tCPA or utlizing Target Impression Share (high 90s percent + low CPC) to play adequate defense vs. Amazon and other competitiors.
• Fully build out Asset Groups (all long and short headlines, descriptions, 20 images, 5 videos from owned YouTube Channel, URL path).
• Connect ESP and pull in “win back” audiences for use in Asset Groups.
• Leverage top converting queries as a separate Asset Group audience @teabeeshell

Have clients who want to evaluate different imagery and creatives, and PMax makes that SO hard to do. @revaminkoff

protip: always look at what Google does with ecom/shopping. that’s usually where we’ll end up a year later. @JuliaVyse

And if you have access to a team (I know, I know, it’s another thread for today) USE THEM! they can apply exclusions that we can’t, they can help evaluate and sometimes make creative, and they can help with explainers and sell-throughs for clients. @JuliaVyse

I think we are yet to solve how properly to have 1P audience and actually to track everything (conversion tracking). Once our industry close those 2 topics , we can easily discuss what is next on their “menu”. @slobodanjelisavac

The b2b question is a real problem. But it’s transferable: in the travel space we have LOTS (too many) of those micro conversions google loves, to the point where our campaigns can easily become wasteful. Try to cull as much as possible, and if you have to use a micro like a page view or newsletter, try to narrow it down and make the campaign exclude other conversion types. That can at least give you an audience to run a search campaign against. @JuliaVyse

Awww, it would be so cute if Google actually woke up to the business potential of creating a real B2B advertising offering. Still waiting 20 years in…@NeptuneMoon

@JuliaVyse will 2024 finally be the year that Microsoft decides it wants to blow up digital  B2B advertising and combines LinkedIn and Microsoft Ads into a single platform?(Not holding my breath of course, but that would be awesome) @NeptuneMoon

Getting the support you need from Google Ads and other platforms

Support, or lack thereof, was also a topic that came up when we had Ginny from Google Ads with us before the holidays. @NeptuneMoon

Ugh, this is a rough one. Speaking as a giant holdco brat, I can say there are ways to get the most out of the team you have: include them in your plans. Have regular connects with them.When they get too salesy: let. them. know. I have gotten full on apologies from teams for wasting time. They have targets to meet just like us, and the more they know about what you need, they more they can help. That includes workarounds, diplomacy with other teams, access to specialists, and more. This business is about relationships, and while not all of them are the same quality, we can control how much we put in. @JuliaVyse

Almost all my Google reps have been so bad since I lost my dedicated support when I left my last job. Right now I’m blessed by the Google gods and I have a good rep. I wish this was the norm and not the exception, especially since I’ll probably get shuffled around again at the end of the quarter. @alexnicoll93

Easiest way: spend a ton of money and get a real google rep. @DigitalSamIAm

@DigitalSamIAm Wait, Google loves money. @alexnicoll93

Believe it or not: even when you spend a huge amount of money with them, they still pull shenanigans. bleh. @JuliaVyse

Q2. What are clients or stakeholders asking you about the most right now?

1st party data, and the effects of Meta’s nonsense regarding local news up here. Media in Canada is a trip right now! @JuliaVyse

I feel like “efficiency” is going to be a recurring theme in 2024. @NeptuneMoon

I’m very grateful that clients are beginning to talk about first order profitability. I have the good fortune of working with some clients who understand their business math, know what they can afford to pay to acquire (new) customers, and relentlessly track against contribution margin.This is a competitive moat, despite being Accounting 101. There are too many distractions that have drawn attention away from fundamentals. I’m glad the boomerang seems to be coming back around. @teabeeshell

Recently I was asked to share what keywords we are targeting and whether we should just pause all the ones that haven’t converted. Less money more efficiency. @sofiaakritidou

Clients are all over the map since they are all at different stages of growing the business. Some are asking:

• what does the next 3 – 4 months look like
• what did we learn last year to help build testing ideas for 2024
• What are we doing for X product launch
• How can our two sites not compete

This year is such a crazy one. @duanebrown

One of the debates we seem to have is whether to provide just keywords to our stakeholders or also provide search terms. I am strong proponent of search terms because with matching being what it is, the keywords are more aspirational/fiction LOL…and search terms are more fact. @eroncohen

@eroncohen I think these days we want to make sure stakeholders grasp how squishy the matching is! And what we are doing or not doing about it. So I think you need data on both. @NeptuneMoon

Q3. Where do you all think we are in the pendulum swing between companies wanting to outsource PPC (agencies & freelancers) to companies wanting to pay salaries (go in-house) instead?

I have been through this cycle many, many times at this point…Generally, when they are concerned about the economy, businesses will shift into the “why are we paying all this money to outside resources when we could just hire someone to do it here” part of that pendulum swing. @NeptuneMoon

But also, they may say “why are we paying salary and benefits to x number of people when we could just pay for the work itself” and go the agency or more likely freelancer route….@NeptuneMoon

I think in general terms that’s right. My bigger client pitches are very interested in our media rates, and the prospect of a discount in media vs salary + ins + benefits makes us attractive. @JuliaVyse

I think in-housing has the allure of being cost-effective. However, it’s rare to hire a true “multi-tool” internally.Not all brands can afford an agency. In the early days, it may even be an irresponsible cost. Creating skills in-house is usually best during a formative time.What agencies can offer is access to a diverse skill set at a fractionalized cost. Yes, a lot depends on which team members are assigned to accounts, their bandwidth, their prowess, etc. but the point remains. At a certain point, brands should outsource for efficiency reasons. @teabeeshell

I see freelancers as a bridge between early days (wearing many hats) and a more mature state (agency hired). It’s a way to test the waters, outsource select functions that take up disproportionately more time…and when revenue allows for it.Savvy freelancers will find the most sought-after functions and upskill there. Some examples can include:

• GA4 report build
• Page building natively within Shopify and other CMS options
• Asset resizing/retooling en masse, via 3p tools
• SaaS connection and data validation @teabeeshell

It’s 2007 – 2009 all over again with some brands wanting to bring things in-house. Makes sense for a lot of brands and they should do it. The rest should not if they can not hire in-house talent and or don’t already have the skills to do the job. @duanebrown

PPCChat Participants

• Peter Bowen @Pete_Bowen
• Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
• Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
• Ameet Khabra @adwordsgirl
• Slobodan Jelisavac @slobodanjelisavac
• Alex Nicoll @alexnicoll93
• Sarah Stemen @runnerkik
• Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff
• Adebowale Selere @adebowaleselere
• Travis @teabeeshell
• Lindsay Casey @lindsaycasey
• Duane Brown @duanebrown
• Brian J Gaspar @brianJgaspar
• Sofia Akritidou @sofiaakritidou
• Sam @DigitalSamIAm
• Greg Asquith @Greg_Asquith
• Eron Cohen @eroncohen

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