PPCChat | Queries Post GML | 28th May 2024

In this week’s PPCChat discussion, host Julie F Bacchini welcomed special guest Ginny Marvin. Ginny answered experts’ questions about the announcements and feature updates from Google’s Marketing Live event held on May 21, 2024.

Q1: What was your biggest takeaway from GML this year?

The profit bidding not triggering learning periods, amount of visual content tools, and asset group level reporting. @navahf

These are my big ones:

• Brand Guidelines for Display!
• Profit-Based Bidding
• Asset Level Reporting @MenachemAni

I forgot! The font checks are.. @navahf

Profit-based bidding is arguably the most important (brand-side) improvement Google Ads has introduced in the last decade. @teabeeshell

@navahf I missed GML. Font checks? @tonyzara

It feels like Google has been listening to feedback and have some product improvements in the pipeline that address specific concerns (brand guidelines, asset level reporting, profit-based bidding). @robert_brady

PLA got a lot of love this update. @NicolasGarfinkel

Google will crawl your site and match your site’s brand font colours and font. @navahf

AI invading everything, but I think we all expected that! There were some cool things, particularly with images that I think can help smaller and mid-sized brands who struggle with creative. The profit campaign goal is a big one too.  @NeptuneMoon

Got pretty hyped up about these:

• Asset level data
• Profit based bidding
• Placement reports @arnolditdepends

It’s interesting framing AI as “invading” – I think a big reason B2B isn’t discussed much is data volume and AI requires data. @navahf

@navahf Very good point on data volume. @robert_brady

So it’s more that AI is cool to talk about so that’s what was put on display. @navahf

I meant it that AI was brought up with literally every single thing. And I get it, Google very much does not want to be seen as being in any way behind on the AI curve. It was just kind of funny, to me, hence the framing of “invading” @NeptuneMoon

@NeptuneMoon Very fair. @navahf

Nothing new for B2B. A huge focus on AI. @revaminkoff

GML was very image and visual focused. Tough for B2B, easier for shopping/products. @beyondthepaid

@beyondthepaid TBH I think these visuals are more engaging for presentations and thus Shopping and Travel make sense for GML examples. @Realicity

Questions from PPC Experts for Ginny Marvin

Q2: I read about Trusted Execution Environments in github but it’s a bunch of adtech gobbledygook. Can you explain it in plain English please? From Mike Ryan

Great question. More to come on this, but the short of it is that a TEE is a place where data is secured and encrypted. In this case, it means only advertisers/designated users will have access to their data and control and transparency over how it is used. @adsliaison

TEE = Trusted Execution Environments @adsliaison

This will be available for advertisers over the course of this year. (No action needed.) @adsliaison

How will these apply? / Be used once they’re rolled out? @revaminkoff

This will be used for 1P data. @adsliaison

From a GDPR perspective, does that move Google away from Controller to Processor? Does that make the advertiser is now the Controller for that data. @NicolasGarfinkel

Q3: Can we get more clarity on the optimization score stat? Were the gains because they acted on recommendations or dismissed them? From Navah Hopkins

I’ll have to look at what the stat was that was shared. But it may have been related to adopting elements covered in the AI Essentials checklist that was discussed during that portion of the presentation. You can find that here: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/13580022 @adsliaison

This was the slide. @navahf

It sounded like they were making the claim that increasing Optiscore is directly tied to an increase in conversions (regardless of the suggestions) @navahf

@navahf Yes that’s how I interpreted this. Although it’s a blanket statement that doesn’t cover specific types of actions that were taken. And honestly, some of the Optiscore suggestions are usually off for specific accounts. So take with a grain of salt? @Realicity

Part of why I’m curious is if we have a bias that needs challenging or if this is a false positive because we can raise optiscore by rejecting suggestions. @navahf

Ah, I see. Correct, that isn’t looking at any one tactic but overall improvements. @adsliaison

So getting the clarity on how people achieved that rise in score would be helpful. @navahf

What we’ve seen is an increase in Optiscore correlates to a lift in conversions. @adsliaison

Is there a way to see if they’re improving the score by rejecting suggestions. @navahf

It would also be helpful to know what general categories of recommendations accepted correlate with performance increases. For example, spend 15% more with no other changes, and you can expect ~15% more conversions. Some other optimization might be more loosely tied to performance, so knowing which specific categories of changes (auto-assets, video dimensions, etc.) would be helpful. @teabeeshell

@navahf I don’t have specifics, but improvements come from a broad range of tactics, including actions taken outside of specific recommendations. @adsliaison

It’s just tough to take that metric seriously since most people take it as a given we should dismiss the suggestions to raise our score. @navahf

FWIW, I would take the conversion lift with a grain of salt. Without knowing more about the pre/post changes.Realistically, Google makes a lot of recommendations – a lot of them are really good. At the same time, they recommend things that might generally be good, but not for your account.Take it as a it’s worth reviewing recommendations to see what other optimizations Google is suggesting. @NicolasGarfinkel

It’s a “show” metric for GML. Improving your Optimiation score won’t equate to a 15% conversion lift every time. @NicolasGarfinkel

I was hoping Google might have been willing to share a bit more info to help us get over the bias that the recommendations are bad. Without that clarification it’s really tough to get over that. @navahf

@adsliaison Not a you problem – we know you can only share what you have to work with. @navahf

@navahf You make a very good point.  if not excluded then it is very possible that accounts under active PPC professional/google partner management would seriously skew that result. I return all my accounts to 100% opt score several times a week! @raejada

Q4: I wonder how/if the AI Overview will affect the ad auction? From Julian Phillip

It’s still early days, and we’re experimenting with multiple options to learn what works best for consumers/users and advertisers. @adsliaison

For the record – I love the helpful content added to ads. @navahf

But I am concerned about how easy it is to get spammy/meme content in AI overviews @navahf

It feels like it should be tied to the same brand controls as Twitter @navahf

Whatever the ad auction looks like then, I’m looking forward to learning about it. @JulianPhillip

I think we all have questions about if ads that were shown in AI Overview SERPs will be designated at such in the data we can see in platform too. But I’d imagine that might not be determined just yet? @NeptuneMoon

True. Currently, most of us consider the top 1-3 positions to be above a certain abs top impr. share, top impr. share & impr. share, so I wonder if AI Overview ads will fall into this same framework. @JulianPhillip

Q5: Are there any plans to make offline conversion imports easier? Even the platforms with direct integrations (Hubspot, Salesforce) have issues in implementation and are not plug and play. From Melissa Mackey

Ooo I love this question. Would be amazing for Google to create a standard for platforms to “plug into” to make integration easier for things like this.Otherwise, you have these half-baked solutions the platforms try to implement themselves that don’t really work and mess up our conversion data. @NicolasGarfinkel

Google Ads Data Manager is now available for all advertisers. We are continuing to focus on making these processes easier for advertisers. @adsliaison

Q6: Are there any roadmap plans to phase out Standard Search or Shopping campaign formats? This is an apprehension of many, given that within PMax, there are no (current) controls to govern how budget is dispersed against inventory. From Travis

(To further clarify, Shopping inventory is arguable the most DR. If a campaign “decides” to overindex into Display/YouTube for a day (or meaningful stretch), advertisers have no recourse. A common solution is parallel Search + Shopping campaigns, complementing PMax.)

There are no plans to do so, and there were several updates announced for both standard shopping and Search campaigns at GML this year. Note that Performance Max is designed to optimize for conversions or conversion value across all Google ads inventory. @adsliaison

“A common solution is parallel Search + Shopping campaigns, complementing PMax.” — Yes absolutely that’s a common and recommended strategy to use complementary campaigns. And in case it’s helpful, more on keyword prioritization across Search and PMax here: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/10724817?hl=en#zippy=%2Chow-performance-max-works-with-search-campaigns-or-keywords-in-your-account @adsliaison

Q7: What Metric are RSA ads being optimized for? I’ve read as much public documentation as I could find and there doesn’t seem to be an answer. From Nicolas Garfinkel

Responsive search ads combinations are optimized based on relevancy and expected performance based on the query. (This is also why you may see some assets serve infrequently but have a high performance rating.) Performance is based on your stated campaign goals. This whitepaper on RSAs may also be helpful: https://services.google.com/fh/files/misc/responsive_search_ads_a_guide_to_writing_ads_that_perform_2023.pdf @adsliaison

Thanks Ginny! I’ve read that. In the PDF and the Google Docs, it’s always stated as “perform best” but with so many different performance/success metrics it’s unclear what that means. @NicolasGarfinkel

Happy to share more about the use case & concerns if that helps contextualize the question. @NicolasGarfinkel

Q8: Are there plans to add targeting and exclusions to PMAX campaigns beyond location? From James Svoboda

(We currently have several clients in a common category, but only serve higher-end clients.  They are Lead-Gen based so initial conversion do not equal quality leads and we’re struggling with getting enough offline conversions imported.)

There’s YouTube placement exclusions + the form to add negative keywords and topic exclusions. @navahf

@navahf Yep. In this case, good ol’ Lookalike audiences based on Customer Match would be incredibly helpful… @Realicity

It’s kind of an interesting idea that Google Limited look a like to demand Gen (I e. That’s a top-of-funnel audience). I always looked at them as warmer audiences but that might be a me problem. @navahf

Q9: Which of the announced features and functionalities will we be able to get access to first? Can you give us a rough idea of when the big ones will roll out (and which ones are already available and where)? From Julie F Bacchini

Here’s a rundown on some of the announcements: @adsliaison

• Ads in AI Overviews is starting with a small test in the U.S., English-only.
• We’re testing the dynamic experience with AI-generated recommendations in the U.S. — English-only to start. (The example shared during the keynote was a search for “short-term storage” and being able to click into an ad to upload photos of your rooms to get a recommendation on how much storage space you’ll need as well as packing supply quantities.)
• For PMax:  brand guidelines is now in beta — English-only to start.
• Image references and image editing for PMax are rolling out globally in English.
• And additional reporting for PMax is coming soon, globally.

WOOO! Love these updates. @NicolasGarfinkel

For Shopping ads, 3D Spin is starting with shoes and will be available soon to all applicable advertisers. Virtual try on is starting with tops and will also be available to all applicable advertisers soon. Video highlights will be running in pilot to start. @adsliaison

And Google Ads Data Manager and Measurement Diagnostics are now available globally. @adsliaison

As mentioned earlier, Trusted Execution Environments (TEE) is expected to be available for advertisers over the course of this year. I think that covers it. @adsliaison

THANK YOU! Super helpful. @NeptuneMoon

Q10: Can you provide some more detail on image generation tools? Specifically if your uploaded image assets include product photos with brand logos in them, will the AI be able to render variations that include the products with the branding? From Julie F Bacchini

There are some content restrictions when generating images. Logos are one example. The image generation tools will avoid generating content with products with brand names and logos. The tools will also avoid generating images with individual people, for example. @adsliaison

We also have strict ads policies that govern the types of ads and advertisers allowed on the platform. Note that our policies and reviews for Brand Identity assets (such as business name and logo assets) are not changing with this feature. @adsliaison

This page has more details on content restrictions and eligibility for using image generation tools: https://support.google.com/google-ads/answer/14150986?hl=en#:~:text=Generative%20AI%20tools%20in,Generative%20AI%20use%20policy @adsliaison

Q11: How firewalled is your profit margin data? Will it be used for recommendations such as “your competitors are 20% more profitable than you are…“? From Julie F Bacchini

I’ll follow up with more on this, but advertisers can currently share cost of goods sold (COGS) data shared in Google Merchant center to enable product features for merchants, including Google Ads reporting and optimization. The COGS data is not shared with other merchants/advertisers and is protected using the same security measures applied to all the merchant’s GMC data. @adsliaison

Q12: For profit optimization goal – will the system always seek to sell more of the highest profit margin items when this campaign goal is selected? Is there any input or flexibility to add parameters beyond just what the profit margin is on individual products? From Julie F Bacchini

Q13: Is documentation coming as to how to optimise our campaigns for a few of the AI functionalities – especially for AI overview and new Search experience, where recommendations are given on the search page itself before a consumer clicks through to an ad? From Anu Adegbola aka PPC Live founder

Q14: As specific conversion metrics were announced for Performance Max Assets, are there any plans to do the same for responsive search ads? If they are no plans to do the same, please may you explain why not? From James Honey

Queries Experts Have in Mind for Ginny Marvin

As specific conversion metrics were announced for Performance Max Assets, are there any plans to do the same for responsive search ads? If they are no plans to do the same, please may you explain why not? @JamesHoney

Are there any plans to make offline conversion imports easier? Even the platforms with direct integrations (Hubspot, Salesforce) have issues in implementation and are not plug-and-play. @beyondthepaid

Are there any roadmap plans to phase out Standard Search or Shopping campaign formats? This is an apprehension of many, given that within PMax, there are no (current) controls to govern how budget is dispersed across inventory. To further clarify, Shopping inventory is arguable the most DR. If a PMax campaign “decides” to over-index into Display/YouTube for a day (or meaningful stretch), advertisers have no recourse. A common solution is parallel Search + Shopping campaigns, complementing PMax. @teabeeshell

Ginny, I really appreciate how vocal you are in the Paid Search community. Feel free to ignore this question if you think it’s too pointed. You add a ton of value to what we do and I’ve found you’ve helped clear tons of things up for me. That said, this morning, there was a few examples of Google Liasons on the SEO side obfuscating, intentionally lying about how things are working, or grossly misinformed. Why should the community trust what you have to say? @NicolasGarfinkel

What Metric are RSA ads being optimized for? I’ve read as much public documentation as I could find and there doesn’t seem to be an answer. @NicolasGarfinkel

Are there plans to add targeting and exclusions to PMAX campaigns beyond location? We currently have several clients in a common category, but only serve higher-end clients.  They are Lead-Gen based so initial conversions do not equal quality leads and we’re struggling with getting enough offline conversions imported. @Realicity

Is documentation coming as to how to optimise our campaigns for a few of the AI functionalities – especially for AI overview and new Search experience, where recommendations are given on the search page itself before a consumer clicks through to an ad? @TheMarketingAnu

@NicolasGarfinkel – I’d be happy to hold a separate conversation about SEO and its future if that’s helpful for you. @teabeeshell

Which of the announced features and functionalities will we be able to get access to first? Can you give us a rough idea of when the big ones will roll out (and which ones are already available and where)? @NeptuneMoon

For profit optimization goal – will the system always seek to sell more of the highest profit margin items when this campaign goal is selected? Is there any input or flexibility to add parameters beyond just what the profit margin is on individual products? @NeptuneMoon

I know you have talked about this, but let’s answer it here:Can you provide some more detail on image generation tools? Specifically if your uploaded image assets include product photos with brand logos in them, will the AI be able to render variations that include the products with the branding? @NeptuneMoon

How firewalled is your profit margin data? Will it be used for recommendations such as “your competitors are 20% more profitable than you are…“? @NeptuneMoon

Which of the announced features and functionalities will we be able to get access to first? Can you give us a rough idea of when the big ones will roll out (and which ones are already available and where)?

This one! This one! The disclaimer at the end of GML was pretty disheartening – “basically said we may not do any of this”. Would love timelines even if it’s “2025”, H2 of 2024, or “probably not until 2026 the earliest” @NicolasGarfinkel

@NeptuneMoon – Why would a brand want to optimize for anything other than max. profitability, outside of inventory constraints? @teabeeshell

@teabeeshell I suppose if your campaign goal was profit optimization, then yes that is primary focus. @NeptuneMoon

@teabeeshell always enjoy talking SEO. email me –nicolas@mindfulconversion.com. I’m also launching a new SEO product that is going to change how people think about SEO — (I’m biased!) — so would love your feedback there. @NicolasGarfinkel

@NicolasGarfinkel – if you ever attended an SMX or read Search Engine Land, you’d be interacting with Ginny’s legacy. She is one of us and Google’s ad products have been WAY more transparent since she took on the role. Maybe research who you’re casting doubt on before making comments.  Being critical of Google is good. Taking out frustration with Google on the messenger isn’t productive. @navahf

PPCChat Participants

• Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
• Anu Adegbola aka PPC Live UK founder @TheMarketingAnu
• Travis @teabeeshell
• Menachem Ani @MenachemAni
• Navah Hopkins @navahf
• Tony Zara @tonyzara
• Robert Brady @robert_brady
• Nicolas Garfinkel @NicolasGarfinkel
• Arnold Bertasius @arnolditdepends
• Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff
• Melissa Mackey @beyondthepaid
• James Svoboda @Realicity
• Mike Ryan @mikeryanretail
• Ginny Marvin @adsliaison
• Rae Bassett @raejada
• Julian Phillip @JulianPhillip

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