PPCChat | PPC and Search News | 30th July 2024

During this week’s PPCChat session, host Julie F Bacchini discussed PPC and search news from last week. The topics were: Google is not killing off 3rd party cookies after all, FTC on surveillance pricing & data hashing, G Ads keyword matching, and OpenAI’s search engine.

Q1: Google announced that it will not be deprecating third-party cookies in Chrome after all – they will develop some kind of “user controls” for how their data is used, but details were not released on that at this time. What are your thoughts about this?

( Few articles regarding the same: https://privacysandbox.com/news/privacy-sandbox-update/, https://www.thedrum.com/news/2024/07/22/shock-decision-google-abandons-third-party-cookie-deprecation-plans, https://digiday.com/marketing/after-years-of-uncertainty-google-says-it-wont-be-deprecating-third-party-cookies-in-chrome/ )

Honestly – I think it’s going to go the way of consent mode – most people aren’t going to consent and it will essentially be the same as if they were retired anyway. @navahf

I’m just enjoying brands who made their whole POD surviving the death of the cookie and now they need to find a new way to communicate their value @navahf

I think there’s a big thing in that they couldn’t, one of the biggest set of lawyers and programmers and ad tech people just couldn’t, figure out what to do to maintain the surveillance capitalism estate. @ferkungamaboobo

I think it is really interesting that they threw in the towel on their approach. A lot remains to be seen with their “user controls” and how that will play out. I agree with @navahf that it seems likely that when directly asked, most people will say no, like they did with Apple’s ATT. @NeptuneMoon

So many hours wasted, strategies changed, marketers running scared since years, ad tech platforms pivoting and what not – only for Google to be like – sorry we ain’t gonna do it anymore. Don’t know how what to feel about this U-turn. @alimehdimukadam

I’m just not over GA4. Consent mode would have been in harmony with Universal. So much time, so much effort, and a product that is still so clunky! ugh. @JuliaVyse

Brands should still focus on collecting first-party data and pulling back into platforms. Hopefully, Google will continue to working to make that process easier. @TheMarketingAnu

There might be some first-party data issues brewing too @TheMarketingAnu  (upcoming question w/ links on this). @NeptuneMoon

Well like, The lesson over the past who knows how long is that we’ve been in a “everything’s made up and the points don’t matter” situation. @ferkungamaboobo

@ferkungamaboobo So, Rand Fishkin has a post (https://sparktoro.com/blog/attribution-is-dying-clicks-are-dying-marketing-is-going-back-to-the-20th-century/) about attribution out right now…@NeptuneMoon

The analytics on the pivot to video were made up, data in analytics has been riddled with junk data from a ton of sources, you can EASILY make ads platforms say whatever you want (let’s track micro conversions to juice the algo!) @ferkungamaboobo

The world is a chaos monster right now and people needed some “good” news. I think this was announced to let people have a feel-good moment before the marathon of hurt the US is in for as they come into privacy compliance. @navahf

The real worry that I have is that we’ve built an industry to teach people a big-data framework that was never true but will try to self-sustain because it has to be true because the industry is there. @ferkungamaboobo

People will adapt because they have to. @navahf

I’m not sure consumers are ready for the cost of privacy. If you truly make data selling impossible, then a lot of technology can’t be offered for “free” (advertisers have been paying the bills for a long time in tech). Will consumers accept a world where you have a subscription to use Google because “privacy” doesn’t allow advertising? @robert_brady

@robert_brady Great question  @navahf

As I said on Twitter “Google not going ahead with the pure “death of the cookie” & instead moving to more of an opt in option isn’t a “YAY cookies are here to stay”. Opt in rates on websites are pretty low, so it just means we’re going to track even less…” I feel like a lot of the posts are yeh cool let’s chill whilst that shouldn’t be the case. @Meriem

Q2: The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) in the US is taking aim at what they call “surveillance pricing” meaning using digitally obtained data to set prices and they have launched an investigation into this practice. What are your thoughts about this?

Articles on this news: https://www.ftc.gov/policy/advocacy-research/tech-at-ftc/2024/07/behind-ftcs-inquiry-surveillance-pricing-practices, https://www.theverge.com/2024/7/23/24204011/ftc-surveillance-pricing-investigation-mckinsey-mastercard-chase )

Amazon is in bigger trouble for this than anyone else. @navahf

They have really strict rules about no one offering a better price for products than what you have on Amazon and you will fall out of the rankings so hard if you try to cheat @navahf

It’s funny because we joke about “zip code upcharges” for any home project or service at our house because we live in a wealthy county. So it is not just an online phenomenon. @NeptuneMoon

The problem I have with the FTC is that it’s toothless against FAANG. @ferkungamaboobo

That being said, I think this is all part of the privacy reckoning that @navahf mentioned. @NeptuneMoon

Even say it’s a 500 million dollar settlement.  @ferkungamaboobo

 Which it won’t be @ferkungamaboobo

 That’s a drop in the bucket, a margin of error on an accountant’s spreadsheet @ferkungamaboobo

But  @ferkungamaboobo  congress in the US does have an appetite for regulating tech right now, so an investigation like this could lead to legislation being drafted. @NeptuneMoon

Which is amazing considering the political climate in general here. @NeptuneMoon

Haven’t airlines been doing discriminatory pricing for decades? I’m pretty sure you couldn’t find 5 people on any flight that paid the same fare.  @robert_brady

It brings up all kinds of interesting business and ethical questions. @NeptuneMoon

I think we’re going to see weird alliances come out of this. Hotels dot com have the same interest in surge pricing as Uber, as health insurers. @JuliaVyse

I was going to say @JuliaVyse that hotels have been doing this forever. @NeptuneMoon

I read somewhere that fake discounts and timers like these are also on FTC’s radar. @alimehdimukadam

So are “dark patterns” that make it hard to cancel subscriptions @alimehdimukadam – Adobe is currently in hot water over this. @NeptuneMoon

I think there’s a strong difference between “i see your battery is at 4% (because that is relatively easy to get through app programming) – you’re getting a higher price” @ferkungamaboobo

And “We know that there are three conferences in town, our prices increase because of the higher demand” @ferkungamaboobo

But maybe not. I’m not a haggler so I know I overpay for everything in my life @ferkungamaboobo

Ahh yes @NeptuneMoon  I had my experience of trying to cancel a creative cloud licence after an employee resigned. It was horrific. @alimehdimukadam

@alimehdimukadam Yup that is what got the attention. @NeptuneMoon

@robert_brady  – Yep, that’s immediately where my head went. Hotels, flights, Taxis/Uber. It’s a form of regulating supply with demand during peaks and valleys. In that respect, it makes sense. Similar to how cities use tolls and discounted bus fares, etc. They use both the carrot and the stick to change demand towards sustainable transportation methods. I think the main point of contention is, how transparent is it? How do we know when we’re being served a different price based on where we work, where we live, etc. What data sets are being used, and how were they obtained, and how could I opt out (if I even can?). That’s where it gets tricky – and at times, deceptive. @timmhalloran

Data consent it about to be a huge topic in the US. @NeptuneMoon

I also think of grocery discounting programs like Kroger, Smiths, Albertsons, etc. have had for decades. People willingly gave up their phone number for discounted groceries, but I wonder how many of them realized that their purchase data was being sold all over the place. @robert_brady

Q3: The FTC had a very active week – they also came out and said that hashing does not make customer data anonymous. This could have big implications for first party data use in ad platforms. What are your thoughts on this?

( Article on this news: https://www.ftc.gov/policy/advocacy-research/tech-at-ftc/2024/07/no-hashing-still-doesnt-make-your-data-anonymous )

I worry about how this one is going to be communicated. Education on some of the more technical side of privacy is not great and likely to get even more obtuse. @JuliaVyse

Happy to help people with their data-gathering audits for their privacy policy! @ferkungamaboobo

I mean at some level, the data has to be accessible enough for a platform to use/match it. So how private can it actually be? This consent issue is going to get more direct as people become more aware of their customer data being shared without their expressed permission with ad platforms. @NeptuneMoon

I think an interesting thing is that we as advertisers and developers just don’t think about who sees the data we pass through. It’s about consent and information. @ferkungamaboobo

Hi, I need to save your email to email you back. You can always tell me to delete your email. @ferkungamaboobo

I have been beating this drum for YEARS – make sure your privacy policy actually states that you may share customer data with ad platforms. Hardly any do – they talk about using it “for marketing purposes” but that is not specific enough, IMO. Leaves the organization open to risk for data management and user consent. @NeptuneMoon

From an ad standpoint, we are about to see a wild conversation. Data was exchanged for relevance. Stop seeing ads you don’t care about like on TV, because data. Now it’s still give us your data, but also go broad, tell everyone. I don’t know if people will put up with that. @JuliaVyse

@JuliaVyse I honestly think as long as ads are not offensive most people truly do not care if they are seeing targeted or personalized ads. @NeptuneMoon

What’s the alternative here? Declaring that we will/may share your data with ad platforms? It’s a policy issue? @alimehdimukadam

Yeah, the user case for “I like targeted advertising” was quite flimsy and didn’t hold up to replication, especially outside of IAB studies. @ferkungamaboobo

They are not going to Google for the “ad experience” nor Facebook nor TikTok nor Instagram, etc. Ads are something people tolerate to get to what they actually want. They are not invested in what kinds of ads they see, at all.  @NeptuneMoon

@alimehdimukadam  I advise erring on the side of being transparent with what you might do with someone’s data. I am not a lawyer, but this is to me just good business sense.  @NeptuneMoon

@alimehdimukadam  Yeah, I think that’s the solution. Just be honest. Say what you’re doing, how you use it. @ferkungamaboobo

In human being language @ferkungamaboobo

The challenge with a lot privacy regulation is just… if you explained what you were doing in plain language, almost no one would agree to the shady stuff, but my gut says they will for reasonable stuff. @ferkungamaboobo

Got it, yes, agreed 100%! @alimehdimukadam

I don’t disagree but I also question how first-party data can ever be used – clean rooms or double IP masking might help but those are still subject to volume. @navahf

Answering slowly because I’m reading some of these articles and digesting them before I respond. I didn’t know about the hashing not being anonymous thing. I do wonder though, if there will be workaround similar to what Google Ads does with Consent Mode and “PINGS” which they say are anonymous bits of information that identify when a conversion event take place but do not associate it with a user or identifiable information like IP’s. Then it takes that unconsented “ping” data and combines it with consented data sets to come up with modeled data that they say is just as accurate as real data. Maybe something like that, but at a larger scale in the future? @timmhalloran

I agree with you on that @ferkungamaboobo and have said for years, if you think people would not agree to what you’re doing if you actually explained it to them in terms they understand, maybe take a hard look at what you’re doing. @NeptuneMoon

So I don’t use any tracking on my site. I’ll put myself up there, cuz I’m always railing against this stuff in a too-ideological way.@ferkungamaboobo

One thing I really like is that I talk about stuff off the website as well. @ferkungamaboobo

I probably should add stuff about my billing/invoicing process as well tbh @ferkungamaboobo

It also sets policy and rules – unless I get explicit authorization, I don’t call from my cell number and don’t give it out. @ferkungamaboobo

Protects me as well as the client. @ferkungamaboobo

Q4: Ginny Marvin of Google Ads had an article about the latest in keyword matching in Google Ads, including how things are prioritized. What are your thoughts on this?

( Ginny’s Article: https://www.searchenginejournal.com/guide-keyword-prioritization-query-matching-controls-google-ads/522257/ )

I think it’s useful to document and accurate based on what I’ve seen across thousands of accounts. @navahf

There is A LOT in this article. So if you have not read it yet, get a snack and dive in. I have read it twice now. @NeptuneMoon

We’re in a transitionary period for sure. It’s insane how complex this is right now. @robert_brady

Most of it is straightforward, but there are some nuances that are easy to miss. Particularly if you use the broad match campaign setting and how that shifts keyword prioritization. @NeptuneMoon

Also interesting that it talks directly about how exact match will get priority if the query exactly matches your EM keywords, but then encourages you to not bother to use them later in the article. @NeptuneMoon

And the whole AI-driven section could make your head explode… @NeptuneMoon

I applaud Ginny for writing such a long and detailed post about the topic. @NeptuneMoon

Yes, but I think AI is hot-buttony. I’m doing research on the CS degree at Carnegie Mellon in 1998. Machine Learning was a required class for undergrad (if I’m reading this all right) @ferkungamaboobo

I think there’s good data around synonyms and whatnot that isn’t just flavor-of-the-week GPT clones @ferkungamaboobo

There is a section on Brand Exclusions, which is not the recommended method to not show for say competitor terms. That section includes this: @NeptuneMoon

It is all shifting a lot. @NeptuneMoon

I need to build a “Everything that’s Current regarding Keywords & Match Types” GPT to keep up I think. @timmhalloran

Read the article again, no quality score…@alimehdimukadam

Ad rank includes QS. @ferkungamaboobo

It’s just that it’s the literal last determinant on which of two similar keywords to show @ferkungamaboobo

Yes, missed that. @alimehdimukadam

My big takeaway from this is that it just makes sense — brand exclusions shouldn’t be fuzzy because “y comic” and “ys comic” are two very different queries – one’s a Western comic from the 00s, the other is a maybe-doesn’t-even-exist Japanese comic based on games from the 80s @ferkungamaboobo

The more I think about it, this is more separating relevance out of ad rank/qs further @ferkungamaboobo

Q5: OpenAI is test launching a search engine. What are your thoughts about this?

( Articles on this news: https://searchengineland.com/searchgpt-launches-444399, https://www.wsj.com/tech/ai/openai-search-engine-searchgpt-97771f86?st=t0wsuv9m3l9i9p1, https://www.searchenginejournal.com/search-gpt-can-search-gpt-disrupt-google-search/523296/ )

I both can’t wait and also worry about how the answers will be used. Right now we’re seeing people expecting 5 years ago Google-level accuracy from TikTok, ChatGPT, and other hallucinatory platforms. Very curious how they will ensure quality in the product. @JuliaVyse

1. Preparing for Apple Intelligence rollout. 2. All for it as long as you give me access to the open AI Ad manager. 3. Perplexity is good, benchmark – would be interesting to see if they can beat it in quality.@alimehdimukadam

I am a solid neutral about it. I think there’s a lot more risk for human bias but I also think the way answers will be rendered will be much more helpful. @navahf

Am I missing something or are they using their same LLM dataset for this? Because that seems like it will not be nearly as accurate, especially vs. Google. @NeptuneMoon

They’re going to face the same problem that Microsoft has been battling for years, namely, how do you change the ingrained user behaviour people have to just “Google” things? Even if it’s a superior product, you have to overcome habit.@robert_brady

@robert_brady When a brand becomes a verb, like Google, it is absolutely amazingly hard to dethrone. @NeptuneMoon

They have GPT down though – people don’t use Gemini as a verb. @navahf

Yeah but GPT is not doing search and returning the results it finds, it is “answering” based on probability. That will be a huge differentiator (and not in a good way) right? @NeptuneMoon

@NeptuneMoon  they are trying to build a product similar to https://www.perplexity.ai/. And with Apple’s announcement that queries will be passed on to ChatGPT, this gives them a massive user base. @alimehdimukadam

I followed that link  @alimehdimukadam  and it is asking me if I want to sign in with my Google account, which is interesting. @NeptuneMoon

More than half of my ‘Google it’ searches now happen on Perplexity. I’ve found Google more useful for “near me” searches – coz of GMB integration. @alimehdimukadam

GPTs have evolved quite a bit – and as people get burned out on traditional SERPs and sites, I can see people moving to that. @navahf

Easiest way to authenticate – sign it with Google. Power of distribution! @alimehdimukadam

I am going to do some searches on the AI engines and report back…@NeptuneMoon

Please do! I am sure you’ll find Perplexity way better than Google except for local ones. Especially good for “how to” and informational keywords. @alimehdimukadam

I am curious to try different types of queries with differing levels of “freshness” required in the results/answers. @NeptuneMoon

And I joined the waitlist for the OpenAI one. @NeptuneMoon

You can “ground” Gemini with actual Google Search as well if you’re using it within GCP or via the API – similar(ish) I think to how they do AI OverviewsMy 2c is that OpenAI is going for a “quality > quantity” play based on how they talked about the data sources in the announcement to justify a fee for using it, rather than free “open” search on Google. @Greg_Asquith

Q6: Bonus question – Google is taking flack for their AI commercial that is running during the Olympics where a dad uses AI to help his daughter write a letter to her favorite athlete. Have you seen it? What are your thoughts?

( Articles on this news: https://www.bandt.com.au/im-a-little-creeped-out-microsoft-google-miss-the-olympic-spirit-with-ai-ads/, https://www.thedrum.com/news/2024/07/26/sydney-mclaughlin-inspires-google-s-girl-power-ad-the-2024-paris-olympics-opening, https://techcrunch.com/2024/07/28/dear-google-who-wants-an-ai-written-fan-letter/ )

Thanks, I hate it! @JuliaVyse

I think the authenticity of a young girl writing the letter herself & sending it far outweighs the eloquence and sophistication that using Gemini would add. As an athlete, I think it would sound fake to get a letter written by AI. @robert_brady

Google missed the mark @robert_brady

The reactions I have been seeing on social sites toward this commercial are heated.For what it is worth, they “ideated” (groan) this ad and produced it in-house. @NeptuneMoon

AI can be helpful for a lot of things, but sending a fan letter, especially from a kid to their heroine, ain’t one of the top use cases @NeptuneMoon

I saw someone say “why should I bother to read something you couldn’t be bothered to write” and I thought that was accurate as to why people are upset over this ad @NeptuneMoon

Just saw this on Twitter: https://x.com/michaelmiraflor/status/1818308477288423602 @NeptuneMoon

I don’t understand why he needs AI to write it for her. The whole fun part is writing the letter to your favorite athlete yourself… And why is the dad taking ownership of writing it for her in the first place? @revaminkoff

PPCChat Participants

• Navah Hopkins @navahf
• Reid Thomas @ferkungamaboobo
• Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
• Ali Mehdi Mukadam @alimehdimukadam
• Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
• Anu Adegbola aka PPC Live founder  @TheMarketingAnu
• Robert Brady @robert_brady
• Meriem @Meriem
• Tim Halloran @timmhalloran
• Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff

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