Here is the screencap of this week’s PPCChat session, where host Julie F Bacchini discussed first-party data, the biggest challenges for the clients when it comes to first-party data, and what experts’ hopes are for first-party data in PPC in the future.
Q1: Are the brands that you work with effectively collecting any first party data from their customers and/or prospects? If so, how are they doing it and what are they collecting? If not, why not? Let’s define first-party data too… in my mind it is customer and/or prospect data that a brand has collected in some way.
Yes and no… we’ve got lots of data, plenty of it useful, but governance remains an issue. Too many transactional account emails and spam data being mixed in (B2B) @ChrisMurray
I’d say that first party data collection is hit and miss? Clients collect data about sales and prospects but it is not always kept in a terribly organized way. @NeptuneMoon
Yes we’re collecting 1st party data from a variety of sources (digital and IRL). Making sure we have the appropriate opt-ins and opt-outs is key! @_GilHong
Some. The public sector teams are very worried about it, but one crown corp is setting up a fully opt-in program we’re going to help run! @JuliaVyse
Trying to get sales people to update their records in a standardized way is a near impossible task! @_GilHong
Some do. Mixture of things.
- customer list upload
- ecomm – most do Klaviyo integration
I’ve also started to use automated ways of maintaining & updating lists, so that helps.
Much prefer to not even touch these myself. @BorisBeceric
@BorisBeceric We could have a whole conversation about data liability! @NeptuneMoon
“Let me just send you this spreadsheet full of PII” @ChrisMurray
@NeptuneMoon I know right?! I honestly start to panic each time someone just dumps a list in a Google Drive or something. Like “this is not the way you’re supposed to be doing this” @BorisBeceric
Some yes, some no. Some clients don’t want to share this data with Google, even though it would really help performance and open doors for things like lookalikes. @beyondthepaid
Honestly majority of customers aren’t using first party data – mostly because they have no system for it, really, or their system doesn’t talk to other systems. and then yes, PII. @revaminkoff
Others send a spreadsheet full of PII haha @beyondthepaid
And agreed that people have concerns about sharing the data with Google or anyone else for that matter. @revaminkoff
@beyondthepaid I regularly have similar discussions with our legal team, risk vs reward and the power of hashing @ChrisMurray
Most marketing teams don’t have someone on them who can just hash a whole bunch of data, so the requests get more elaborate / require additional support. @revaminkoff
We do have a question coming up about concerns regarding first-party data. But… In case anyone is not aware, if you upload it you are taking responsibility for having the proper rights to upload data to an ad platform. They all have a little innocent-looking checkbox during upload where you agree that you have all requisite permissions. @NeptuneMoon
Yes, the brands I work with are actively collecting first-party data through various methods to enhance their marketing efforts and improve customer experience. @BivutiVussionMallik
@NeptuneMoon they make you tick the box. @BorisBeceric
Yes, you cannot upload without checking the “I totally have permission to share this data” box! @NeptuneMoon
Anyone here marked as the data protection contact in their account. @_GilHong
Yes, most did in some major way or another through a 3rd party analytics platform, forms, or email analytics. @DiiPooler
Q2: Are the brands that you work with using first party data in their PPC efforts and if so, how are they using it? If not, why not?
They all want to. they LOVE the idea of retargeting and finding lookalikes. But match rates and audience size are not what they want to discuss @JuliaVyse
My clients are not really using first-party data. It is a two-fold situation: @NeptuneMoon
- Having the data in any kind of easy sortable and usable format is often a big challenge
- They are not comfortable sharing customer or lead data with an ad platform
Honestly, most collect the data and stop there. Some upload customer lists to Google to drive their NC acquisition. Match rate is usually abysmal so nothing more comes from it. @BorisBeceric
We use current customer lists as exclusions. But as @JuliaVyse said, match rates are terrible and audiences are usually too small to be of any use @beyondthepaid
Do clients feel differently about different platforms when it comes to uploading data? I feel like Facebook used to get a bigger pass on this front than Google ever did. But more clients are cautious about Facebook now. @NeptuneMoon
Updating opt-out list exclusions. Adding value to offline conversion imports to increase lead quality.
Retargeting at all stages of the funnel, including product adoption. @_GilHong
Not in my experience, they love the idea and are eager to use it. Where many still have mixed feelings is with conversion tracking. @BorisBeceric
It’s all the platforms for us. They want the functionality, but not the risk @JuliaVyse
There’s definitely more hesitation with more notorious platforms like X and Meta. LinkedIn much less so. @_GilHong
If your clients/brands are uploading data – are they doing it themselves with your guidance? Or do they want you to upload it? @NeptuneMoon
Customer match lists for exclusion purposes or remarketing purposes is the easiest sell, but again, they have to be comfortable sharing the data with Google or Meta (and that is the question…) @NeptuneMoon Definitely need our help 9 times out of 10. @revaminkoff
We help but I have said and emailed so many times: do NOT send me any lists or other personal data. I will walk you through it on a screen share @JuliaVyse
I will help a client do the uploading – and by that I mean jump on a Zoom and walk them through it as they do it.I want NO part of anyone’s data. @NeptuneMoon
It’s a good reminder honestly – we should do that more. Some clients are freaked out by data and just don’t want to be involved. @revaminkoff
I will remind you all to make sure your contracts cover data responsibility and liability…@NeptuneMoon
We do everything via conversion APIs or automatic lists for this reason, no manual handling of lists @ChrisMurray
Biggest thing for us now is improving the quality of that data, different products have different volumes of data but for the bigger ones we’re moving to pass back closed leads rather than just MQLs. @ChrisMurray
“No manual handling of lists” sounds like a startup idea. What would you pay for that, $30/mth? @beyondcontent
$30 sounds great. I’d probably pay more. @revaminkoff
brb getting a patent @ChrisMurray
Q3: What are the biggest challenges for the clients or brands you work with when it comes to first party data?
List sizes, getting enough data is a challenge. Takes time and money which are not popular answers @ChrisMurray
Actually having a data management system. It is incredible how many businesses just have a spreadsheet that someone periodically updates as their customer data! @NeptuneMoon
Getting them to handle it properly! @revaminkoff
Being able to segment in a meaningful and strategic way that has a large enough list size is always the challenge. @_GilHong
Just understanding how it works and why it CAN be a good idea. @JuliaVyse
Getting enough closed sale data within the Google timeline so it makes sense to try and find lookalikes. @JeffreyHain
I am very interested to see what happens as Google implements its essentially fingerprinting tech to replace cookies and how that impacts the push for first party data sharing. @NeptuneMoon
List sizes mainly. Also getting clients to structure their data properly or even use the right attributes can be tricky. @BorisBeceric
Finding ways to collect the data from the wholesale/CPG clients who don’t sell anything on site. @revaminkoff
Keeping data fresh, if clients aren’t using a tool that pushes lists automatically to the platform. @beyondthepaid
I do think getting clients to think about this as an ongoing dataset to manage is important too. Most think of it as one-and-done uploading. @NeptuneMoon
Q4: Do you have any concerns about clients or brands using first party data in their PPC and if so, what are they? If not, why not?
Magical Thinking. We added our customer list, why aren’t we immediately successful? @JuliaVyse
I am worried about liability for privacy. Because, unless it is explicitly in your terms or privacy policy that you might upload a customer’s data to an ad platform, I think you are definitely taking a risk doing so.Most people do not think that by making a purchase or filling out an inquiry form that they are giving that company permission to share their data in any way, shape or form. @NeptuneMoon
For my Gov clients, I worry that we’ll get them to a certain point and then legal/compliance will shut the whole thing down. @JuliaVyse
One big concern is alignment and strategy on how that data is used across different platforms (search, social, programmatic, email). We want to stay consistent with messaging, CTA, and follow through without spamming the list or cannibalizing results. @_GilHong
Outsize expectations on retargeting efforts. @JeffreyHain
I also have concerns about what else platforms might do with advertiser provided data. Will it only ever be used for your account? Or will they use it in some way or aggregate it to have it be used across accounts? Like will the AI start telling you that your competitors’ average customer is better than yours because it can see the zip codes? @NeptuneMoon
Getting them to stay clear from retargeting the sh*t out of lists. @BorisBeceric
Retargeting has sure lead to some lazy marketing. I think it can still be quite effective, but you have to also work for it. @NeptuneMoon
@NeptuneMoon have the Do’s & Don’ts of retargeting changed much recently? Curious what everyone thinks on that front. @beyondcontent
@beyondcontent That sounds like a great chat topic @NeptuneMoon
@NeptuneMoon I think that’s what my non-gov clients are super worried about! Like, we’re selling a burger. So let’s use all the tools in the toolbox, but do we need to put all this Canadian customer data into a giant US-based tool with a global footprint? @JuliaVyse
@NeptuneMoon need Jyll as topic expert for that one! @BorisBeceric
I think the platforms look at first party data strictly from their perspective – “it’s great!” and don’t from an advertiser’s perspective of “risk vs. reward.” @NeptuneMoon
I will take it one step further too… platforms love first party data at least partly BECAUSE it shifts data and privacy liability off of them and onto advertisers. @NeptuneMoon
Data privacy – can we trust the platforms? @revaminkoff
Not to be too topical, but we don’t have the Patriot Act up here. Why…WHY would we put our customer data into anything like that? Explain to a pharma or law firm what that risk is here in Canada. @JuliaVyse
Q5: What are your hopes or wishes for first party data in PPC in the future?
This might be far fetched but 1. Prove to us that the data will be safe and used properly. 2. Make it easier for us an our clients to provide the data safely and securely. Reduce the risks. @revaminkoff
I would love for there to be some kind of clearinghouse that was vetted and super secure where data could be housed and then matched to data provided by platforms to put individuals into audiences. @NeptuneMoon
I think brands like the concept of being able to have their customer data drive audiences for targeting or exclusion, but they are so nervous or uncomfortable with letting that data be used. And I am glad they are hesitant as a consumer! @NeptuneMoon
something something AI. no for real, if there was a viable way for AI to find new customers based on lists, that would be epic @BorisBeceric
Honestly @BorisBeceric I would be happy if the AI could sort out geographic words in queries against geographic targeting. @NeptuneMoon
Technically that’s what Optimized targeting is supposed to do based on your conversions. @_GilHong
I just wish all of it were easier and safer. @JuliaVyse
@_GilHong I said viable @BorisBeceric
Me, running a bilingual, nationwide campaign including QC. Google: is this….France??? oh, it’s Senegal. oh wait, it’s… @JuliaVyse
PPCChat Participants
- Chris Murray @ChrisMurray
- Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
- Reva Minkoff @revaminkoff
- Melissa L Mackey @beyondthepaid
- Gil Hong @_GilHong
- Dii Pooler @DiiPooler
- Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
- Boris Beceric @BorisBeceric
- Bivuti Vussion Mallik @BivutiVussionMallik
- Andrew McGarry @beyondcontent
- Jeffrey Hain @JeffreyHain
Related Links
Stop the wasted ad spend. Get more conversions from the same ad budget.
Our customers save over $16 Million per year on Google and Amazon Ads.