This week’s PPCChat session was inspired by Optmyzr’s bidding strategy study released last week. Below is a recap of the entire discussion, hosted by Julie F Bacchini.
Q1: Do you have a “go-to” bidding strategy in Google Ads? If so, what is it and why is it your “go-to” bidding strategy?
Maximize clicks, maximize conversions. @ferkungamaboobo
Not exactly, I tend to go bespoke depending on client needs and conversion setup. But in very general terms, I stay away from IS unless there are specific circumstances, and then max clicks until sufficient conversions are captured, flip to max conversions. @JuliaVyse
I use max conversions when I can but I also utilize max clicks for low conversion volume accounts and was thrilled to see in the study that max clicks is a strong performer! I do lead generation PPC not ecommerce.@NeptuneMoon
I see max clicks performing REALLY well in smaller, regional campaigns. @JuliaVyse
Oh yeah, for ecomm, add in value, add in ROAS. @ferkungamaboobo
I love a nice max conversions portfolio strategy with a target CPA and a max CPC set. @Pete_Bowen
like you have the data. @ferkungamaboobo
This is going to shock folks since I’m a big fan of max conversion values (and everyone SHOULD put in conversion values) but I like max clicks with a bid cap until I hit conversion thresholds. @navahhopkins
I think the big thing from the study is that the angst over bidding strategy really doesn’t play out that they’re all that different. @ferkungamaboobo
I was very sad when I saw the data come back that setting tcpa/tros goals hurt more than help campaigns. @navahhopkins
I’d love to dive into that data to draw conclusions there. @ferkungamaboobo
@navahhopkins Do you have any theories on why that is (using the target ROAS or CPA hurting) @NeptuneMoon
I bet a part of it is because we as practitioners do some WONKY things with targets\ @ferkungamaboobo
Humans setting bad goals (too low or too high) with budgets that don’t fit objectives. if you’re intelligent they’re great @navahhopkins
Because I wonder if part of it is that advertisers ideas about a reasonable ROAS or CPA are whacked. @NeptuneMoon
if you’re greedy or setting goals with no connection to reality, you’re going to have a bad time. @navahhopkins
Well, it’s less what’s reasonable, and more “Well my real CPA target is $100, so I’m going to set it to $64.33 because I KNOW Google sucks” @ferkungamaboobo
And let’s be real about something else too… many, many businesses have NO IDEA what their target CPA should even be! @NeptuneMoon
I actually stopped pushing my bid floor and cap strategy as much because of the data – as much as I know it’s a good idea if you can be smart about your goals and floors/caps, too many people make mistakes and hurt themselves. @navahhopkins
Again I think practitioners pretending we’re data-based is the curse of PPC, @ferkungamaboobo
I tend to get really EAGER clients who believe Google = Data in all things. So they’ll give me a cap they want to hit thinking it’s the same as a sales number, and not a cap in an average environment. Basically, too rigid. @JuliaVyse
I can’t tell you how many times I have asked “what are you willing to spend to acquire a new customer?” only to be met with @NeptuneMoon
This is the data from the study on goals. Do Bidding Strategy Targets Help Improve Campaign @navahhopkins
I think clients forget about the TARGET part of tCPA or tROAS too! Some will be above and some will be below and sometimes by a lot. It is really about what is the average performance you want Google to optimize for. @NeptuneMoon
ecpc did great with them – but that’s dead now. target spend is max clicks btw. @navahhopkins
Yes! and like, if you have a blended, overall CPA, that’s great! paid media will be higher cost and higher volume than organic and direct. If you have a call center, question mark. There are too many variables involved to expect performance media to adhere to a rigid, blended CPA. @JuliaVyse
@navahhopkins awesome data, thanks! – what does the “yes/no” target column mean? Like if you put in a bid cap? @MicheleJaeger1
yes means there is a goal, no means there isn’t. some strategies did ok, but most it was flat or hurt performance. @navahhopkins
Q2: Do you use different bidding strategies in different situations? If so, which ones and in what situations or circumstances and why?
I do – but I was super surprised to see that the majority of advertisers don’t. @navahhopkins
Yes. B2B tends to be more traffic-based by necessity. Foot traffic tends to do well on volume vs cost per targets. @JuliaVyse
Manual/auto bidding in the beginning, smart bidding once we meet conversion thresholds. @navahhopkins
Manual CPC or Max Clicks for low volume campaigns – Max Conv Value w/a ROAS goal in most other situations which for me is largely e-commerce. @EricLouisConsulting
I mean, target what you want, keeping in mind that you need enough data to bid by conversion. So if you don’t have that data do it by click. Because everything boils down to an eCPC anyway. @ferkungamaboobo
As I mentioned previously, I do lead gen PPC. So, often times I have accounts that struggle to meet the 50 conversions in 30 days thresholds. I am willing to try different strategies if the client is super insistent. But, generally, I will use max clicks to start and then maybe switch to max conversions. I also will still use manual until it is taken away. Google does say that you don’t get all the benefits of machine learning if you use manual, so take that into account when using it. But in some accounts, it will still work best! @NeptuneMoon
I bet Demand Gen (and how much it leans into paid social tactics) is going to push a bunch of folks into micro-conversions. @navahhopkins
That’s a whole other thing with bidding in general — creating things to make the numbers go up. @ferkungamaboobo
I think these days we have to be preparing clients and stakeholders for more volatility in Google Ads, because things need time to find footing (or not!). Old school PPC value prop was that we had actionable data from day 1. And we get data from day 1 but it is not really terribly actionable on a lot of fronts in the account. @NeptuneMoon
Ad platforms needs data, @navahhopkins
Ad platform needs GOOD data. @JuliaVyse
I’ve seen so many times people suggest “oh if I put this NOT A CONVERSION as a conversion, will that help?” and idk idk you CAN do that if you have causal data but it’s so willy-nilly usually. @ferkungamaboobo
I remember sitting in the audience as a Facebook rep told hero Conf we needed 50 conversions in a 7 day period to focus on leads/sales as a goal. @navahhopkins
I use a mix! sometimes for lead gen I’m relying more on downstream lead quality data that isn’t reflected in the CPA — so for some of those accounts I’m still relying on manual bidding (if I know certain keywords are more valuable than others) @MicheleJaeger1
Yeah, and I don’t think 50 is all that big, really. @ferkungamaboobo
If people put in conversion values for each event they track and lean into max conversion values, it’s a way for Google to know what we value and get the data it needs. @navahhopkins
ehhhh but that again leads to junk numbers usually — you end up messing things up in the hopes of tracking everything as ads. when idk, let your email team get the win, let your organic team get the win or whatever. @ferkungamaboobo
I think we are going to have to use conversion values if you’re not already. Even it is not the true value, Google needs to know relative value to the advertiser so you have to think hard about setting that up if you have not already. @NeptuneMoon
I worry about the machine misinterpreting the values. Like I’ll add this newsletter signup value as a data point, and it will be right, but I don’t want 50 signups, I need 2 bookings. And that volume/lead quality/lead type question is really tough. we’re talking to an equation. @JuliaVyse
We also have to remember that in some circumstances, Google’s machine learning is like a big dumb puppy. You give it data and want it to play fetch with it, but then it sees a squirrel. @NeptuneMoon
Yeah if you have a white paper secondary conversion (and I am extremely ANTI having two goals on a landing page but whatever, you do you) and 1.5% of them tire-kick on the demo, you need SO much info about your funnels to get the values right. @ferkungamaboobo
My frustration is that Google isn’t really accessible to SMBs in the way it was 5-6 years ago. They won’t be able to handle the volume of leads Google needs to perform well. So they get the rough choice of not getting smart bidding (meaning work on their part) or having to keep all the micro-conversions organized (still more work) @navahhopkins
Q3: Do you use bidding strategies differently for new accounts versus established accounts?
I start out new at max clicks so yes @runnerkik
Great question! I tend to max clicks on new accounts @JuliaVyse
YES!!!!!!Older accounts get the benefit of smart bidding from the get-go (or manual cpc if I’m dealing with super low volume). Newer accounts are almost always max clicks with a bid cap to teach the customer/me what the auction prices are and if I have the right targets for the budget I’ve been given @navahhopkins
I will often start with max clicks to get things rolling in search campaigns. @NeptuneMoon
Also, Older accounts might get data edited out if I’m inheriting a mess. @navahhopkins
I think in established accounts is it also important to look through the change history and see what has been run and how the performance was. @NeptuneMoon
Provoke question: do any of us launch with max clicks and no bid cap? just to see what the auction looks like? @JuliaVyse
@JuliaVyse all the time. @runnerkik
Yes, I do but keep a close eye @JuliaVyse – cause you know clients get twitchy if there is a $150 click in there! @NeptuneMoon
I do it when we launch a new product. and agreed, client relations are KEY here. @JuliaVyse
Q4: Have your thoughts or philosophy on bidding strategies in Google Ads shifted in the last 1-2 years? If so, how? And if not, why not?
eCPC going away is something that takes that almost entirely off the table for me as a strategy. @ferkungamaboobo
I’m sad that humans are the reason humans fail. @navahhopkins
Not sure if it’s a Google Ads shift or a landscape shift, but more of my clients are asking for IS bids. It’s REALLY fun when I tell them traffic will reduce, and we do it, and then traffic reduces. It’s a fun surprise every. Single. TIME. @JuliaVyse
Well, I was very broad-a-mation but working in smaller accounts I see merit to more control. It depends on the industry too. Automotive for example automation worked so well but I think Google has good audiences there. @runnerkik
I used to be so hopeful that human intervention and guidance would make things better, but we’ve proven we just put in bad data or irresponsible goals. @navahhopkins
Well, and that if we don’t have good data, there’s very little we can do. it’s pretty disempowering. @JuliaVyse
I will fully admit that my attitude about smart bidding has taken a while to come around. Mainly because as something designed for high-volume ecommerce accounts, it has been challenging to work with it outside that scenario. But I have been continually testing and trying things to find ways to get the benefits of the machine learning without too much waste. Low-volume lead gen accounts have little tolerance for perceived waste or volatility in the bidding and subsequent results. @NeptuneMoon
To add to that @NeptuneMoon low volume and low research the “I need this now” category is hard since customers aren’t “in market”. @runnerkik
Max Clicks with limit is quite viable for low-volume campaigns BUT there can be runaway spend on phrase match terms so it needs to be monitored for quality. Long term manual has higher quality, but in the short-term/ramp-up phase needs more tweaking. Max Clicks is more convenient but could run astray. @EricLouisConsulting
@navahhopkins would be if the ML started doing it would be for it to have alerts along the lines of “this goal might not be achievable in your account” to help people set better targets. Like use all the data from advertisers in that industry to provide prompts like that? Thinking out loud here…@NeptuneMoon
Also when auctions are volatile automated bidding can cause crazy spikes or when Google shakes cushions. @runnerkik
@NeptuneMoon I’ve put in feature requests for that on the Optmyzr side and there are some enhancements to Sidekick (our AI) that do some of that. However, nothing will compete with the ad platform’s ability to know if a bidding strategy and budget is viable. max clicks with a bid cap honors the bid cap – eCPC didn’t have one. I’m happy Max Clicks with a bid cap is staying @navahhopkins
Bid caps are especially important to budget-constrained accounts. Those advertisers are not interested in the system chasing one click that eats up more than 100% of their daily budget. They just aren’t. So bid caps are nice insurance against that happening. @NeptuneMoon
Is there a preferred keyword matching option being used by folks if kicking things off with Max Clicks on a new account? @MikeForrester
One broad match data acquisition keyword and the rest on exact (with all of them as exact match negative in the broad match keyword ad group) @navahhopkins
Interesting. @navahhopkins Thanks @MikeForrester
P.S. If folks have feature requests for softwares (not just Optmyzr) – the best way to get them heard is to cite the specific use case you have for the feature and why the software isn’t usable (churn risk) without it. product teams hear a lot of requests that can turn into noise – if you can be specific and explain why this feature will keep you as a happy customer, there’s a lot more incentive to pay attention. @navahhopkins
Q5: Are you/have you tested different bid strategies in the last 12 months? If so, what did you test and how did it go? (please tell us the industry for the account where you did the testing)
I’ve tested them all and I still go back to Max Clicks with a bid cap and Max Conversion Value. @navahhopkins
TBH no. I run a lot of evergreen and once it’s working, I try not to fiddle too much. I have run one or two IS ‘tests’ at client requests that we ultimately weren’t happy with. @JuliaVyse
IS is great if that’s your goal. Again, why try to make a bishop move like a knight. @ferkungamaboobo
I have not tested anything outside of max clicks or conversions lately. @NeptuneMoon
Now, should impressions be your goal for a search campaign? EXTREMELY rarely. @ferkungamaboobo
I agree @ferkungamaboobo – it’s also helpful to teach clients if their budget is too low. 70% impression share with a 10% of daily budget bid cap = client wake-up call that they need to check their aspirational keyword concepts or put more budget in. @navahhopkins
Agreed on talking budget hard truths with clients! I swear in so many audits I see budgets stretched way too thin to give campaigns a fighting chance, no matter what the bid strategy! @NeptuneMoon
Yes, I’m auditing 5 accounts right now @NeptuneMoon and that’s the theme. The average CPC is higher than the daily budget. @runnerkik
Just when you think we don’t need to go over the basics again…@JuliaVyse
There were so many times I was asked to lower the budget I suggested in the sales process. @ferkungamaboobo
25 Ad groups with 20 keywords each too. @runnerkik
It is situational awareness (to steal a sport term) for advertising campaigns…If your average clicks are say $10 and your daily budget is $100, you can realistically expect 10 clicks per day (though some days could be wonky). If you want 3 leads a day, you’d need a 30% conversion rate. Sometimes you have to break it down this way for them to see they are self-limiting and that budget should be allocated differently to give campaigns an actual chance to bring business! @NeptuneMoon
@runnerkik This is why eCPC and smart bidding with low conversion volumes are sad – way too easy for Google to double the budget on a sliver of hope. @navahhopkins
I’ve done my version of 100$/10$cpc = you can afford ten clicks in deck after deck…@JuliaVyse
“I think $25K/mo is viable”
“Well, what would you do with $10K”
“Not run paid search”
“That’s not helpful here” And tbh, and to be fair to sales, it’s not helpful. Hammers and nails. But I think “Hey that $120K a year has better investment than my department,” I think is something every practitioner is scared of. @ferkungamaboobo
@runnerkik And that client is seriously wondering why they aren’t seeing results. It is bonkers and so, so common! @NeptuneMoon
@ferkungamaboobo I feel like those folks truly don’t understand their customer values. because if they did, they could argue for more realistic budgets or shoot down tests that will be too small to be functional. @navahhopkins
It’s hard. Everyone’s squeezed. Sales told by agency principal that we need 3 clients by EOQ, it’s a 2-month sales cycle. All to be shot down because the back-of-house manager talks numbers. @ferkungamaboobo
@ferkungamaboobo I will tell a client that they have to pick and choose if they don’t have adequate budget to cover the scale (either geographically or of products or services) if their budget is insufficient. Does not land me all the clients I talk to, but that’s ok cause what they want is not feasible. @NeptuneMoon
Q6: What is your biggest bidding strategy frustration?
Magical thinking. ‘if we just do this, would that work?’ the answer is always maybe, and often, probably not. @JuliaVyse
I wish that smart bidding worked better for lower conversion volume accounts. It is exhausting having to constantly “workaround” in a system to find success and results for clients. @NeptuneMoon
And on the client side, I wish they understood basic math better. You cannot succeed in Google Ads if your budgets are insufficient. Period. End of story. @NeptuneMoon
PPCChat Participants
- Reid Thomas @ferkungamaboobo
- Julia Vyse @JuliaVyse
- Julie F Bacchini @NeptuneMoon
- Peter Bowen @Pete_Bowen
- Navah Hopkins @navahhopkins
- Michele Jaeger @MicheleJaeger1
- Eric Louis Consulting @EricLouisConsulting
- Sarah Stemen @runnerkik
- Mike Forrester @MikeForrester
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